Bruce hinting at coming back as Ash?

Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Why not? Surviving from Evil for so long is already an achievement for a mortal. Remember Ash is no Navy seal, nor a super hero. How many times did we heard Bruce Campbell telling that? So I expect him dying like an old average man.

...except that would be tonally inappropriate for the character of Ash as he's been shaped in Evil Dead 2 onwards. Expecting him to simply die as a tired old man isn't only depressing, it's downright nihilistic, rendering all the triumphs Ash has made beforehand completely pointless.

Ash occupies a strange, unique category between "average joe" and "invincible he-man." Army of Darkness showed he can be a coward one moment, and a hero the next, in a completely ridiculous but still entertaining fashion. The character himself is basically a cartoon in the best way possible. Making a dreary Amour-like movie where Ash coughs and wheezes right up to the point where he drops dead is early 21st century pessimism at its most shallow. The Long Defeat hasn't existed in Ash's universe ever since he survived the final shot of the original Evil Dead.
 

Sutter Cane

Spinach Chin
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
...except that would be tonally inappropriate for the character of Ash as he's been shaped in Evil Dead 2 onwards. Expecting him to simply die as a tired old man isn't only depressing, it's downright nihilistic, rendering all the triumphs Ash has made beforehand completely pointless.

Ash occupies a strange, unique category between "average joe" and "invincible he-man." Army of Darkness showed he can be a coward one moment, and a hero the next, in a completely ridiculous but still entertaining fashion. The character himself is basically a cartoon in the best way possible. Making a dreary Amour-like movie where Ash coughs and wheezes right up to the point where he drops dead is early 21st century pessimism at its most shallow. The Long Defeat hasn't existed in Ash's universe ever since he survived the final shot of the original Evil Dead.

As mentionned in several times in interviews, Ash have nothing to do with super heroes. Robert Tapert said in interview that he's only a lazy guy, but good to fight deadites. They put a lots of emphasis on that specificaly. So basically he's a fast thinker, it's his only skill, otherwise he suck. This is why he survive so long because he's very good on very short term decision. This is coming straight from the creators, so it's difficult to see the "invincible he-man" here.

The character is cartoony, specially in AOD, but it mostly slapstick and comedy inspired by the three stooges. Cartoon or not, who said there's no place for little drama?

How many times they killed Optimus prime in Transformers? About super heroes, they already killed Superman, wolverine just to name a few... and if I remember Wolvernine's death in comics, was not really a cool death. I think even Thor and Odin which are gods have already died. So you can do whatever you want and bring them back to life, which happened too much IMO. At the end it's fiction.

Anyway, the fate of a character belong to their creators only. They are the only one who know what is tonally approriate or not.

I would like to see an end for Ash, but do I really need to see him die? Maybe they should, maybe not... If they do, I think they need to break some hearts. That's only my opinion. Too easy to go with the "ultimate sacrifice" scenario or "dead but not dead" hint at the very last bite. They actually need to close the book and stop this character to get stuck into an Apocalyptic cliffhanger limbo. Actually as fans, we're still stuck with an alternate take of the alternate ending of AoD made 30 years ago. Nothing really cool here either...

By the way, Ash wasn't suppose to survive at the end of the first Evil Dead. Sam Raimi choose the name Ash accordingly to the fate of the character. Say thanks to Crimewave because it's simply failed at the box office. If successful, maybe Evil Dead 2 would have never seen the light of day.
 
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
As mentionned in several times in interviews, Ash have nothing to do with super heroes. Robert Tapert said in interview that he's only a lazy guy, but good to fight deadites. They put a lots of emphasis on that specificaly. So basically he's a fast thinker, it's his only skill, otherwise he suck. This is why he survive so long because he's very good on very short term decision. This is coming straight from the creators, so it's difficult to see the "invincible he-man" here.

Did I mention "superhero" in reference to Ash at all in my previous post? Like I said, Ash is more of a fusion of a relatable working-class schmoe and an impossible savior who can take down entire armies of zombies. I think it's difficult for you to see the "invincible he-man" in Ash because you simply refuse to.

I would like to see an end for Ash, but do I really need to see him die? Maybe they should, maybe not... If they do, I think they need to break some hearts. That's only my opinion. Too easy to go with the "ultimate sacrifice" scenario or "dead but not dead" hint at the very last bite. They actually need to close the book and stop this character to get stuck into an Apocalyptic cliffhanger limbo. Actually as fans, we're still stuck with an alternate take of the alternate ending of AoD made 30 years ago. Nothing really cool here either...

I can tell from your avatar that you're a fan of bleak endings. (FYI, I dig In the Mouth of Madness too, but Ash would have sliced off Sutter Cane's smirking face with his 'saw and cooked it like a pancake). "Breaking hearts" is a current fad among movies that's already grown tiresome. I can only guess it's inspired partly by the grimdark world of Game of Thrones, but "darker" doesn't always mean "better." Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice learned that the hard way. It's cheap sadism, plain and simple.

Stop executing heroes as if they were criminals on the chopping block. If they really need to end at one point or another, just let them ride into the sunset, frozen in a perpetual state of immortality. "Closing the book" doesn't always mean the lead has to be bumped off, dude.

By the way, Ash wasn't suppose to survive at the end of the first Evil Dead. Sam Raimi choose the name Ash accordingly to the fate of the character. Say thanks to Crimewave because it's simply failed at the box office. If successful, maybe Evil Dead 2 would have never seen the light of day.

I'm fully aware of that. I also previously stated "...as he's been shaped in Evil Dead 2 onwards." ED2 can function as a sequel or a remake, depending on who watches it. If your David Fincher-esque worldview craves Ash to be truly ash after ED1's end credits have rolled, you can go right ahead and choose that version of events for yourself. But Ash as Sam Raimi reformatted him in ED2 is an entirely different kettle of fish.

Besides, if Ted Kotcheff had shared your opinion, Rambo would have been killed at the end of First Blood, and that's the last we would've seen of him, ever. There's a thin line between being "artistic" and being a pretentious idiot.

I won't say thanks to Crimewave, either. Aside from a few good gags, that movie is awful.
 

Sutter Cane

Spinach Chin
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Did I mention "superhero" in reference to Ash at all in my previous post? Like I said, Ash is more of a fusion of a relatable working-class schmoe and an impossible savior who can take down entire armies of zombies. I think it's difficult for you to see the "invincible he-man" in Ash because you simply refuse to.



I can tell from your avatar that you're a fan of bleak endings. (FYI, I dig In the Mouth of Madness too, but Ash would have sliced off Sutter Cane's smirking face with his 'saw and cooked it like a pancake). "Breaking hearts" is a current fad among movies that's already grown tiresome. I can only guess it's inspired partly by the grimdark world of Game of Thrones, but "darker" doesn't always mean "better." Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice learned that the hard way. It's cheap sadism, plain and simple.

Stop executing heroes as if they were criminals on the chopping block. If they really need to end at one point or another, just let them ride into the sunset, frozen in a perpetual state of immortality. "Closing the book" doesn't always mean the lead has to be bumped off, dude.



I'm fully aware of that. I also previously stated "...as he's been shaped in Evil Dead 2 onwards." ED2 can function as a sequel or a remake, depending on who watches it. If your David Fincher-esque worldview craves Ash to be truly ash after ED1's end credits have rolled, you can go right ahead and choose that version of events for yourself. But Ash as Sam Raimi reformatted him in ED2 is an entirely different kettle of fish.

Besides, if Ted Kotcheff had shared your opinion, Rambo would have been killed at the end of First Blood, and that's the last we would've seen of him, ever. There's a thin line between being "artistic" and being a pretentious idiot.

I won't say thanks to Crimewave, either. Aside from a few good gags, that movie is awful.


I'll try to keep that short :

-He-man have more in common with Superman and Clark Kent than any average joe in the universe. If you don't consider him as a super hero, fine, it's your opinion.

-Please don't pretent you know my taste by looking at my avatar. I'm not a fan of bleak endings. Good or bad ending, I just love good stories and watch many genres. That's it. ;)

-Stop executing heroes...I don't get that one. I do not work for Marvel, Hasbro and DC comics. Furthermost, I never said I want see all fictionnal characters dead. so I don't really feel concerned about this.

-Continuity between Evil Dead movies is an eternal debate. I just pointed out what Sam Raimi told in interview about the character.'s fate in ED1. Yes he reformatted him in ED2 next. So yes this mean he's finally alive at the end of ED1. But that was not what he intented when he originally wrote it.

-Well, If Chris Colombus had shared my opinion on Evil Dead, Kevin would have been killed at the end of the first Home Alone too. I have an opinion on Rambo, an other one for the Evil Dead franchise and so on. One do not apply to the other...

-I think you just don't got my point about Crimewave. Good to know that we're at least agree on one thing...not a very good movie.


Well, I just don't know where this is leading to...Just a reminder that we are all here for a friendly talk, I'm totally ok with the fact that you don't share the same point of view on that matter. ;)
 
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
-He-man have more in common with Superman and Clark Kent than any average joe in the universe. If you don't consider him as a super hero, fine, it's your opinion.

Sorry, I forgot how brutally unforgiving the internet is about using any character that isn't an absolutely perfect comparison. I picked He-Man out of a hat, but if I used someone like, I dunno, Ellen Ripley, you would have argued that she did die in the movies, regardless of the fact she was "resurrected" later. That's why I said Ash was unique.

-Please don't pretent you know my taste by looking at my avatar. I'm not a fan of bleak endings. Good or bad ending, I just love good stories and watch many genres. That's it. ;)

I find that you can learn a lot about a person just from their avatar, much like their handwriting. I think the problem here is that you prefer stories with a slightly darker bent than others. Which is fine, depending on the story, but in the case of Ash and the Evil Dead franchise, it's inappropriate. Ash isn't Logan, and not only because Logan doesn't have a chainsaw for a hand. Ending Logan's story on a downbeat note isn't necessarily wrong for the character, but it's VERY wrong for Ash.

-Stop executing heroes...I don't get that one. I do not work for Marvel, Hasbro and DC comics. Furthermost, I never said I want see all fictionnal characters dead. so I don't really feel concerned about this.

That comment was more directed at the vast phalanx of writers who've been influenced by the likes of George R.R. Martin and Robert Kirkman, who think it's "hip" to unexpectedly murder protagonists or otherwise good-hearted characters. It's a trend that's finally beginning to burn out.

-Continuity between Evil Dead movies is an eternal debate. I just pointed out what Sam Raimi told in interview about the character.'s fate in ED1. Yes he reformatted him in ED2 next. So yes this mean he's finally alive at the end of ED1. But that was not what he intented when he originally wrote it.

Dude, that's the entire point. Ash is an almost entirely different character in ED2 compared to how Sam Raimi wrote him in ED1. Whether Ash lived or died at the end of ED1 is completely up to you. But I feel that iconic shot when Ash was attacked by the Evil Force as the exact moment when Ash "metamorphosed" from something mortal to something immortal; not in a literal sense, but metaphorically.

-Well, If Chris Colombus had shared my opinion on Evil Dead, Kevin would have been killed at the end of the first Home Alone too. I have an opinion on Rambo, an other one for the Evil Dead franchise and so on. One do not apply to the other...

Home Alone belongs in an entirely different genre and is thus completely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no idea where you're going with that. I know it's meant to be a joke, but it kind of makes the rest of your argument look weird and confusing.

-I think you just don't got my point about Crimewave. Good to know that we're at least agree on one thing...not a very good movie.

I get your point, I just don't think it's a particularly good one IMHO.

Well, I just don't know where this is leading to...Just a reminder that we are all here for a friendly talk, I'm totally ok with the fact that you don't share the same point of view on that matter. ;)

The thing is, ever since I first began posting here, I've noticed an odd dislike for the character of Ash. Not outright hatred, but more of a "let's get this idiot out of the way so we can REALLY make the franchise good" sort of attitude. They tried to make Evil Dead without Ash before in the 2013 film, and it didn't take. I have no idea where they're trying to go with Evil Dead Rise, but I don't have too much confidence. If you're about to argue that Ash vs. Evil Dead ultimately failed even with Ash as the lead, I should point out that STARZ deliberately shoved the third season into February of 2018 so the ratings would take a dive, giving them the excuse to cancel the show. I don't know why they wanted it gone. Maybe they were just jealous of the size of Ash's boomstick.

 

Sutter Cane

Spinach Chin
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Sorry, I forgot how brutally unforgiving the internet is about using any character that isn't an absolutely perfect comparison. I picked He-Man out of a hat, but if I used someone like, I dunno, Ellen Ripley, you would have argued that she did die in the movies, regardless of the fact she was "resurrected" later. That's why I said Ash was unique.



I find that you can learn a lot about a person just from their avatar, much like their handwriting. I think the problem here is that you prefer stories with a slightly darker bent than others. Which is fine, depending on the story, but in the case of Ash and the Evil Dead franchise, it's inappropriate. Ash isn't Logan, and not only because Logan doesn't have a chainsaw for a hand. Ending Logan's story on a downbeat note isn't necessarily wrong for the character, but it's VERY wrong for Ash.

Could you please stop pretending you know me and also what I'm going to write? Thank you...

That comment was more directed at the vast phalanx of writers who've been influenced by the likes of George R.R. Martin and Robert Kirkman, who think it's "hip" to unexpectedly murder protagonists or otherwise good-hearted characters. It's a trend that's finally beginning to burn out.

I know what you talking about, not a fan of Gerge RR Martin and Game of Throne. The Walking Dead was cool until it turn around in circle. I stopped reading the comics long time ago. Agree, sometime too much is like not enough.


Home Alone
belongs in an entirely different genre and is thus completely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no idea where you're going with that. I know it's meant to be a joke, but it kind of makes the rest of your argument look weird and confusing.

Speaking of weird and confusing, I just thought that this Ted kotcheff and Rambo comment was just coming out from nowhere. I just wanted to point out that you can't take someone else opinion and apply it at your convenience...



The thing is, ever since I first began posting here, I've noticed an odd dislike for the character of Ash. Not outright hatred, but more of a "let's get this idiot out of the way so we can REALLY make the franchise good" sort of attitude. They tried to make Evil Dead without Ash before in the 2013 film, and it didn't take. I have no idea where they're trying to go with Evil Dead Rise, but I don't have too much confidence. If you're about to argue that Ash vs. Evil Dead ultimately failed even with Ash as the lead, I should point out that STARZ deliberately shoved the third season into February of 2018 so the ratings would take a dive, giving them the excuse to cancel the show. I don't know why they wanted it gone. Maybe they were just jealous of the size of Ash's boomstick.


I have no expecation for Evil Dead Rise, it will be a wait and see for me.

No I'm not going to argue that AVED failed even with Ash as the lead. If it failed, I don't think it's about Ash. They got evertyhing to make it successful. I personnally point out the writing of the series at some point and production conflict of season 2. Audience was already dropping during S2. Changing the third season into February schedule was probably not a good idea either. We don't always know what's going on behind the curtain. Maybe there was still tension between Starz and the creators and Starz choose self-sabotage to end their collaboration. Sometimes it's more about politics, we will probably never know....Anyway, this has already been discussed countless times on this forum.
 
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Muzzlehatch

Loud Mouth Braggart
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Maybe there was still tension between Starz and the creators and Starz choose self-sabotage to end their collaboration. Sometimes it's more about politics, we will probably never know....Anyway, this has already been discussed countless times on this forum.

Please excuse me for going too much offtopic, but has anyone of the cast or crew ever opened up about what was going on behind the curtain? I found Bruce‘s latest book quite lacking in this regard.

Btw I have to go even further offtopic: I have not written much here since AVED ended, but I always lurked around too read the forum and what you guys had on mind. I hope we will get a little more ED content to discuss in the future with the new movie, video game etc.
 
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Nick el Ass

Hero from the Sky
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Location
Indianapolis
Please excuse me for going too much offtopic, but has anyone of the cast or crew ever opened up about what was going on behind the curtain? I found Bruce‘s latest book quite lacking in this regard.

Sam, Rob, Bruce, etc... haven't really discussed what happened behind the scenes with Craig DiGregorio. We can (and have) all speculated about how it had to do with his poor choices about characters, but no one ever came out to say if there were any other issues that lead to him being relieved of his duties as showrunner. I find it all a bit odd too when everyone was so open about everything going back to the Xena days when choices were about everything involving the cast and crew. I don't know if we will get anymore insight as the game gets closer to release, but I doubt there will ever be any major discussions about what Starz did and/or didn't do to make Ash vs Evil Dead successful. I could be wrong.


I think if Sam Raimi said hey lets do one more Bruce would agree or at least if he was offered a big payday he would return for any reason

Money has never been a driving force for Bruce in his career, but if Sam woke up tomorrow and decided to step in and direct a final Evil Dead movie it would improve the chances of Bruce coming back. However, I don't think Sam has any interest in doing so at this point... and would rather work on a dream project like Doctor Strange.
 
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MaidOfKandar

I May Be Bad But I Feel...Good....
Staff member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Please excuse me for going too much offtopic, but has anyone of the cast or crew ever opened up about what was going on behind the curtain? I found Bruce‘s latest book quite lacking in this regard.

Btw I have to go even further offtopic: I have not written much here since AVED ended, but I always lurked around too read the forum and what you guys had on mind. I hope we will get a little more ED content to discuss in the future with the new movie, video game etc.

Craig DiGregorio did a whole interview at the time with the AV Club, which is the closest anyone ever got to commenting on the situation. Sam and Bruce and Rob have all remained understandably mum, though Bruce will probably talk about it someday.
 

Godzilla

S-Mart Clerk
Joined
Jun 10, 2021
Location
Oregon
I would love to see Bruce return as Ash someday, maybe if the game and the new movie are successful enough he'll consider it. I'm happy with the the three movies and the 3 season TV show we got though. I wish we could've gotten more but I did enjoy the whole "The adventure continues" kind of ending we got with the show, I wouldn't want them to bring him back just to kill him off.
 
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